The following is an auto-generated transcript of an episode of OFNTSC's Podcast "Ontario First Nations Technically Speaking 'Cast" hosted by Chelsey Johnson.

In this episode, Guest Heidis Manitowabi talks about her career as she delves into the motivating factors shaping her path toward a profession centered around environmentalism and solid waste management.

00:06 - Chelsey (Host)
Hello everybody and welcome to the special Earth Day episode of OFN TSC's Technically Speaking Podcast. I'm your host, chelsea Johnson, coming to you from our Brantford office, and today I'll be joined by a very special guest from our environment team. But before I welcome our guest today, I'd like to give you a bit more information on Earth Day and the theme this year, which I hope we can all take part in together. So every year, on April 22nd, earth Day marks the anniversary of the birth of the modern environmental movement, which took place in 1970.

00:42
For Earth Day 2024, earthdayorg is unwavering in its commitment to end plastics for the sake of human and planetary health, demanding a 60% reduction in the production of all plastics by 2040, a huge undertaking, as plastic is in nearly everything these days and has become so pervasive that microplastics are now showing up in the human body. We're currently seeing research showing the detrimental effects plastics have on our day-to-day lives, from our health to the pollution of our planet and waste and I know I try to recycle as much as possible, but it seems as though plastic is still everywhere and in everything. So what can be done and what is being done to reduce this? That's what I'm hoping we can chat with our guests a little bit more and find out some more information together. So today we have special guest Heidi Manitowabi with us to talk about her journey to becoming a solid waste coordinator, what you can do to reduce your plastic waste, but also dig a little deeper into the value of Indigenous knowledge and the parallels to Western knowledge, particularly in the environmental field.

01:53
Heidi is Anishinaabekwe from Wikwemkong on Minidaw, ministing. Her educational background includes an advanced diploma in indigenous environmental science from the Trent University and her work experience includes various environmental work, training, facilitation and community engagement at the community and tribal council levels. So, without further ado, please join me in welcoming Heidi Manitowabi. Ani, heidi, ani, chelsea, hi, I'm so happy to have you here with us today. Thank you very much for carving some time. I know you have a really busy schedule and you're on your way through Brantford to get to a conference, but I'm just so glad to have you here and I don't know if you wanted to just quickly introduce yourself a little bit more, if you wanted to add anything else, just to get us started out, sure.

02:53 - Heidi (Guest)
So Ani Ani, can I have you? I am originally from Wee Krem Khoaung on Manitoulin Island. I introduced myself in my initial nosewind and I currently work out of the Sudbury office through the Ontario First Nations Technical Services Corporation. So in my educational background my advanced diploma was actually in environmental technology from Sir Sandford Fleming, and I attended the Indigenous Environmental Program at Trent University for a year before the workforce scooped me up. So I started my work experience in First Nations communities doing environmental monitoring and, as life brought me now I'm working in solid waste management.

03:42 - Chelsey (Host)
It's really exciting, because I feel like when people hear solid waste, they don't really know what that means, like I know. Even at one point you and I were talking and you said something about solid waste and I almost just thought it would just meant like human solid waste.

03:57 - Heidi (Guest)
No, solid waste is garbage, okay, yeah, so I'm actually on my way to a national garbage conference down in Niagara Falls and it's interesting because one of the things in a lot of the webinars that I sit in, seminars and all that a lot of people bring up that nobody really goes to school for solid waste management. It's something that you just fall into, so it's, you know, like it's a. Really it's an issue that everybody deals with. There's not one person in the modern world that doesn't create garbage, but it's something, it's a, it's an issue that everybody deals with. There's not one person in the modern world that doesn't create garbage, but it's something that everybody has to deal with. But unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of people that are interested in this kind of field. So I decided to take on the challenge.

04:36 - Chelsey (Host)
So yeah, yeah, I mean, it's not even something that I feel like a lot of us don't even really think about it a little bit deeper, like we just kind of throw things in the garbage and we don't think about what happens to it after that.

04:48 - Heidi (Guest)
Exactly when you throw things away, where is away Right and people don't think about that.

04:52 - Chelsey (Host)
So how did you fall into this?

04:55 - Heidi (Guest)
So actually the first experience that I had with it was working for my home community. I did a subsidized summer program where I created my own job with the Lions Department as an environmental researcher trainee and I started just dabbling in different types of research and one of the things that I had come across was the lack of recycling. So I started just writing up reports to encourage businesses especially to partake in recycling. So back home they had a recycling truck that not really a truck, but it was like a caged up in the back of a truck.

05:33 - Chelsey (Host)
It's not like the recycling truck you see going through municipalities.

05:36 - Heidi (Guest)
No, no, it was just, you know, like a truck that had. It was like a bear cage almost, that would just get filled up with cardboard, but they were missing things like pop cans and plastic bottles. So I was encouraging businesses to participate more in recycling, and the woman that I was working with, she actually gave me the idea of doing a poster campaign. So I asked a couple of friends of mine to dress up in their regalia and we went and took pictures at the landfill. So just showing that dichotomy between our traditional way of thinking of, you know, being in our regalia and having that sort of shocking image of standing in front of a giant pile of garbage.

06:20 - Chelsey (Host)
That's so powerful. Yeah, I can't. I can't only speak to where I'm from in Six Nations, and recycling is not super prioritized and our landfill is over capacity. It has been over capacity for a while and I know that that's become a real issue within the community. So what kind of work are you currently doing? Because I'm assuming a lot of other First Nations as well have similar issues.

06:45 - Heidi (Guest)
So my job title at OFMTSC is a regional solid waste specialist and that kind of encompasses a lot of different things. So I coordinate a Ontario region First Nations solid waste coordinator working group meeting, which is made up of solid waste coordinators across Ontario, generally employed at tribal councils, some large First Nations communities. We meet about twice a year in different regions of Ontario and just talk everything garbage. So we'll invite government representatives like the Ministry of Environment, conservation and Parks, the Resource Productivity and Recovery Authority, to come and talk to us about regulated waste diversion programs and how they can be implemented in our communities.

07:26
So there are some communities that I'm working with where we are getting solid waste management plans developed, because you can't deal with solid waste without having a plan first. So it all starts with a plan and that's actually one of the first steps to accessing funding through Indigenous Services Canada. So, yeah, just educating communities, creating awareness about the types of funding that's available, types of waste diversion programs that are available. Another thing that I do is get communities on board with training. So whether it's landfill operator or transfer station operator training, I mean the list can go on. I can start searching through my computer to see what I've been up to for the past couple of years but it really the job kind of takes me a lot of different directions.

08:11
I also find myself advocating for First Nations communities, so not only promoting sustainable solid waste management practices in our communities, but educating our non-native populations about the needs the solid waste management needs of our communities.

08:26 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, and it does seem like there is such that stark contrast between our traditional teachings as who we are as caretakers of Mother Earth, and then kind of what's happening in modern times. What do you see as being the I guess for more, for lack of a better word like solution to that kind of issue?

08:48 - Heidi (Guest)
So I think about when so a few years ago, in a different job that I had, I attended a moose hunt camp in a community that's about south of Thunder Bay and it was the first time I had attended a moose hunt camp. I wasn't a very outdoorsy person when I was growing up, but as I got older, the environment field just kind of called me so getting involved in different projects. I was at this moose hunt camp and one of the ideologies that was often promoted by the elders and community members was you know, we don't waste anything.

09:18
You know, when the hunters would come back with a moose. Nothing went to waste. Like I tried my first moose tongue, I tried my first moose nose, my, you know first moose heart, and then you know they had teachers coming in telling you what to do with different parts of the bones, at different ligaments, and so like, literally nothing went to waste. Unfortunately, that mentality goes away as soon as you walk inside of your house. You know you don't you think about, you don't think about not wasting anything anymore. You go and you know, like, open up a can of pop, a bag of chips and everything goes into the garbage. Right, are you like absolutely anything? Like we live in such a disposable society right now.

09:56
You had mentioned earlier about, you know, the decreasing landfill capacity in your relationship or in your community. There's actually a website called w2roorg, so it's Waste to Resource Ontario, and there's actually a countdown of the landfill space left in Ontario and it's less than 10 years. So if I go into the website right now, so we are April 2nd at 2.10 pm on the Waste to Resource Ontario website there is 3,556 days, 20 hours, 50 minutes and 20 seconds of landfill space left in Ontario and that's about 10 years.

10:40
And what's really crazy about that is the Canadian government and the Ontario government is really slowing down the process to open up new landfills. So waste diversion is really important. Diverting waste from landfills from beginning to end to starting the process to decommission a landfill and build a new landfill is over 10 years. So for any communities that are starting right now, it's gonna yeah, we're going to be running out of time, absolutely so the way that the Canadian government is going right now is they're actually holding the producers of products accountable from the beginning of a product's life to the end of a product's life. They're no longer putting that onus on municipalities or consumers to deal with the end life of a product. So there's this term called the Extended Producer Responsibility Program that's making its way across Canada, started out in BC because that's where you know everything amazing starts is out there, where the onus and the financial responsibility of paper and packaging products, things that are recyclable falls onto the producers. And yeah, so Ontario right now is moving under that framework, which is actually pretty interesting.

12:03 - Chelsey (Host)
That is interesting and to me that's definitely hopeful and possibly a good step in the right direction. But in your opinion, are landfills kind of like a necessary, like evil for lack of a better word again but like would you say that landfills will always exist, or is there a way that you would hope we could potentially get to a point where everything's diverted from the landfill?

12:31 - Heidi (Guest)
So there is this movement called the zero waste movement where communities are very, very strongly encouraging zero waste in their houses. There's zero waste businesses, zero waste stores, because when you think of waste you know other than things like furniture and things like that. A lot of waste comes from packaging. Yeah, so if we go back to supporting local businesses, going to farmers markets, supporting our local farmers, our local craftspeople, there is a way to reduce, significantly reduce, the amount of waste. When we're talking modern society, I mean I feel like we're just. We rely so much on disposable products. We're a long way from that.

13:18
I'm a little pessimistic because I'm in the solid waste field and I see it. But, like I had mentioned earlier, out in BC, the First Nations group you know that's similar to OFNTSC. Out there is the indigenous hold on indigenous zero waste technical advisory group, um. So they promote zero waste in their communities. So not necessarily zero waste in households, but zero waste in their communities.

13:45
So they are decommissioning all of their landfills, building transfer stations and just simply shipping the waste out of their communities so that it's not it's one less problem for their community to deal with, because I mean our first nations communities we have to deal with health. We's one less problem for their community to deal with, because I mean our First Nations communities. We have to deal with health, we have to deal with housing, we have to deal with so many other things, and solid waste is often at the bottom of the list. But they've had this. They have this really great way of reaching their communities. From the last time I talked with them there, they have only five active landfills in BC and there's over 250 First Nations communities here in.

14:16
Ontario.

14:16 - Chelsey (Host)
We're a long way from that, wow yeah, and like before we were talking about, like how our society is so consumer driven and the packaging and all that stuff, like it would take a humongous ideological, collective ideological shift in thinking, um, but that could be where some of our traditional values come into play and, like you know, I love what you said, how you did about the, the campaign in the community where you had people come and stand in their regalia. Is there other things that we can do to like pull in more of our traditional values and ways of thinking into modern times?

14:57 - Heidi (Guest)
Absolutely so. I know in my community and other communities that are long, you know like in semi-southern I'm sorry, northern central Ontario, do feast bundles. So instead of you know you come to a community event, instead of using disposable plates and you know utensilsils, people bring their feast bundles. I know in one community when they have community feasts, it's elders and people with feast bundles that can eat first, which is really neat. So you know, like just the way that a lot of our you know the wild of our ceremonies are run. You know, like like moose hunt camp. You know where we don't waste anything. Yes, Just keeping that ideology outside of ceremony, outside of being at Moose Hunt Camp, outside of being at Hunt Camp, you know where we're not creating waste, we're making minimal footprint, and just carrying on that sort of teaching into our everyday lives teaching into our, into our everyday lives.

15:57 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, and I know this year for earth day, um, the focus is on plastics. So is there anything you can talk a little bit more about on that end of things and what you're seeing in communities, how they're dealing with plastics, how you help them? Yeah, like, yeah, I've okay. So me, I've heard that a lot of times. What we put in the recycling, it actually doesn't end up getting recycled, and it's mostly plastic stuff. So, yeah, can you just talk a little bit more?

16:22 - Heidi (Guest)
about that. So, yeah, there's a couple different ways that I can go with this. So, just off the top of my head, talking about contamination rates. So recycling is a business and recyclable materials need to be clean. So you know when you're talking like a juice bottle, if it's an orange juice bottle, that bottle needs to be rinsed out.

16:42 - Chelsey (Host)
Jordan's smoothie cup right here Exactly yes.

16:45 - Heidi (Guest)
So that would to be properly recycled, that would need to be rinsed out and then placed into the recycling bin. If that cup was put into the garbage like that, that can contaminate a whole load of recycling and the entire load would end up at the landfill. So that's something that a lot of people don't realize when it comes to recycling. Is that number one recycling is a business. They do need to make money. And number two, that as consumers, as you know, like people in households and in businesses, we need to do our part to make sure that the recyclable material is marketable. So that's the contamination rate side of it.

17:23
The second part is in Ontario, waste diversion regulation so like the Blue Box program does not apply to communities north of the far north boundary, and we have 31 First Nations communities that are north of the far north boundary. So we have 31 First Nations communities that are north of the far north boundary. So you think of that huge population that's being missed. And then you think of things like communities that have water advisories and severe food insecurity. So how are these communities expected to reduce their plastic when the only solution for their drinking water is from bottled water? So I feel like. That side of things is often missed. When people in southern Ontario talk about recycling, you know we think of it as a sort of like be-all, end-all solution to waste diversion, when we're not taking into account contamination rates and we're not taking into account, you know, the need for plastic water bottles in our northern communities.

18:17
The necessity, the necessity, exactly. Another thing to consider, too, is plastics that are made from post-consumer materials, so plastics made out of recycled plastics and plastics that are made out of virgin materials, so that are just fresh, brand new. They've never been made into anything before. So just to quote a couple of articles here In 2020, the Association of Plastic Recyclers compared the energy profile and environmental impact of virgin plastic and recycled plastic. The study found that recycling plastic consumes a lot lower energy compared to the process of making virgin plastics. So virgin plastics take up to three times more energy to produce than post-consumer plastic. So this actually results in a 79% reduction in environmental impacts when compared to production of virgin plastic.

19:14
Because not sure if everybody knows, but plastic actually comes from the, the oil industry. It's, it's a byproduct of, of, the of. You know petroleum comes from oil, right? So, and then you also think about the decomposition of plastic, right when you? When you know the history of plastic. So history, or the plastic actually was invented in 1907, became more readily available after the Second World War, and then was completely mass produced in the 60s and 70s. So there's been studies about the decomposition rates of plastic. So for plastic to decompose, it needs air when plastic is in a landfill. There's no air in landfills because a good run landfill has everything compacted. So according to studies, a water bottle will take about 450 years to decompose. We haven't. We've only been using plastic for over 100 years, so we actually don't really know what the actual decomposition rate of plastic is wow it.

20:13 - Chelsey (Host)
It's pretty scary, it's pretty crazy. But yeah, I mean, I don't even know where to go from here. To be honest, Like I'm kind of just like what do we do?

20:26 - Heidi (Guest)
Yeah, I, mean, it's pretty easy to get overwhelmed.

20:28
I've been in the environmental field for quite a long time and I get, you know, like I said, I'm a bit of a pessimist when it comes to this kind of stuff because I've been in the field for a long time.

20:35
More realist, yeah, but where I get my, where things kind of turn around for me is, you know, like when I take my non-plastic water bottle, you know my reusable bottle, fill it up with some spring water and go for a walk in the bush with my you know five, almost six year old nephew. So that's sort of where, um, when I, when I get really overwhelmed with you know, like all the environmental problems learning about you know, like methane emissions and microplastics and just all these crazy things that are, you know, sort of a common place in this field, just kind of bringing it back to what is real it is. You know, like connecting, like connecting to mother earth, connecting to the young ones, you know, like connecting to elders, you know, because my mom's at that age now where she's sort of an elder in training kind of thing, so yeah, she's always bringing me back to like our original teachings and reminding me about, like, why I got into this field in the first place, and I heard you mention methane emissions briefly.

21:31 - Chelsey (Host)
Could you explain a little bit more about what methane emissions are and what can be done to reduce methane emissions?

21:37 - Heidi (Guest)
So when it comes to landfills, so methane in general is a really potent greenhouse gas emission. So methane has 86 more times global warming potential than carbon dioxide, so carbon dioxide being what we breathe out and what trees breathe in. So we all know that reducing greenhouse gas emissions is necessary to avoid the worst impacts of climate change. So methane is what landfills will emit when there is a lot of organics present, organics being food, you know leaf and yard waste, wood paper like fiber, textiles, like cotton and things like that. So clothing, so clothing, yeah, well, not really polyester clothing, but more cotton, you know, like natural fibers. So, according to a report that I had read from I believe it was Environmental Conservation, the report is actually called State of Solid Waste Management in Canada and it was written for the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment, and it states that municipal solid waste landfill are responsible for 23% of Canada's methane emissions and, to put that into context, the oil and gas sector makes up 38%. So, yeah, so the methane generated today is a result of decades of landfilling of biodegradable waste. So, as of you know, let's say you know pre-1970, like you said, the beginning of the environmental movement, when people became aware of sort of the impacts that our modern society is having on the environment. People start reducing waste, start being more aware of, you know, like CFCs and you know like all these other like dioxides and just sort of like the things that all these man-made things that we're just releasing into the environment because we don't know any better, we don't know where else to put it. So that mentality also made its way into the solid waste management field, realizing that we actually shouldn't be throwing away our organics, because that is valuable material that can be used to create compost, which is, you know, like we'll feed nutrients into some food, into plants. So one of the best ways to reduce methane emissions from landfills is to divert those materials.

23:51
So there's some communities that do not really first.

23:54
Well, I know there are some first nations communities, especially in Quebec, that have really innovative composting programs where they have, you know, like these huge, like sort of like reactor things where they'll, you know, feed into it. But I mean there's always just backyard composting that you can do, where you know you build like a little little bin in the back with some pallets and just turn it with some you know like green and brown materials and you create some compost that you can use to feed your tomatoes, and then having more of that like sort of circular what they this new idea that mainstream society has come up with, the circular economy, which is something that we've always had in our traditional values, right? So instead of it being like a take make waste society, we're turning it around to keeping things in the economy. So there's like repair cafes that are really coming off the ground now, where, instead of throwing away a bike, they're having repair cafes where they'll have people come in who are, you know, experienced in that, and they'll do it for free.

24:59
And you know, just bring communities together to share knowledge, repair things to keep things out of the landfill.

25:07 - Chelsey (Host)
That's super cool and I feel like it really further cements that feeling of community as well, because I feel like right now we're really struggling in the sense that we're becoming so individualistic and it's just like we're not coming together as a community, as it should be for the health and well-being of everybody, to help each other. So I didn't realize that that was happening, which is really cool. I'm going to have to look into that a little bit. But yeah, in my community, six Nations, there is no composting program or anything like that. So yeah, I guess most, for the most part, people are probably throwing organics into the landfill. I guess you mentioned having a backyard compost. Is there anything else that can be done in those kinds of situations to?

26:01 - Heidi (Guest)
compost, and I mean getting involved with community gardens. I know that's something that's you know like really becoming really popular in communities.

26:08
Um, so, instead of having, you know, everyone having their own backyard composter, having more community composters? There is a group that I had come and present at one of our solid waste coordinator meetings. I learned about them through a CBC article and they had a pilot project up in northwestern Ontario. It's called Food Cycle Science. So they're actually like a tabletop. It's not really a composter, but more of you know like it breaks down food materials and then, I guess, the material that's left, you add it to soil and let it sit for six weeks and it's sort of like it's not compost, but it is compost. But it's a way of reducing the amount of organics that are in your garbage. Because you think of, you know, when people think of garbage, they think of. You know like. Oh my God, it stinks, you know like, but what makes it stink is the food. It's the food, yeah.

26:58 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, it's so different living on reserve versus if you're living in a municipality Like my partner, for example, lives in a municipality where they come weekly and do recycling, garbage and compost pickup. So I would just be interested to hear a little bit more on your take of the difference between First Nations community waste generation and compare that to Canadian municipalities.

27:28 - Heidi (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely so. Just for a bit of background, the federal government had it was about 2016, started investing a lot more dollars into solid waste management in First Nations communities, which is sort of where this program got its start. So this is before my time at OFNTSC. But the federal government recognized that there was chronic underfunding when it came to solid waste management and, because it is a federal liability they didn't want, they wanted to start promoting it more. So they, you know, had this First Nation Solid Waste Management Initiative. It got renewed in 2021, will be sunsetting hopefully not in 2028.

28:12
So a few years ago, ofn TSC had completed some professional waste audits to see what the waste generation rate was in First Nations communities. So they had four First Nations communities participate. It was Chigang First Nation and Chippewa's Georgina Island First Nation. That were done in 2014 and Nipissing First Nation and Hiawatha First Nation in 2020. And what these reports concluded is that First Nations communities in Ontario generate over 30% less waste per person per household. Wow, so on average in First Nations communities it's 545 kilograms per person per year, compared to Ontario municipalities that generate about 790 kilograms per person per year. So that in itself is pretty interesting that you know.

29:02
Just generally, first Nations communities do not generate as much waste. Whether it's because we're further away from big box stores generate as much waste, whether it's because we're further away from big box stores, whether it's our mentality and our households about, you know, not wasting things. There could be a number of different reasons for that, but I just found that you know over six years that these were the numbers that were complete, like that were concluded right. I'm hoping to complete more waste audits to get more accurate data as time goes on. But for communities that are listening, I do have a solid waste survey that's available. It's in our OFN TSE newsletters. So people that were working in public works or in the band office, if you can visit the website and complete the First Nations community solid waste surveys so that I can effectively advocate for future solid waste management needs, whether it's training opportunities, funding opportunities, what's needed, like what you have in your community, I can't effectively advocate if I don't know, or you know, like, what the overall picture is.

30:04 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, yeah, and it's. There's so many. Well, I think it's like 133 or 134 First Nations in Ontario and I'm assuming that they all have very different needs and how to best advocate for that. Do you see major differences? I know you talked a little bit about how, basically, it's unavoidable to have plastic waste in some of the northern communities that are on boil water advisories. Um, are there other like stark differences that you see between, like, northern communities, southern communities?

30:39 - Heidi (Guest)
yeah, so southern communities because we're um, because communities down this way are a lot closer to you know, and distance wise to municipalities, they have what you know what are called service agreements. So you know, like having transfer stations developed in the communities and then having the waste just simply shipped out. In northern communities that's not really the case because, you know, municipalities are really really far and I mentioned earlier about the waste diversion regulations that don't apply to the far north. So communities are piling things up. Some communities are burning because you know they just want to get rid of the garbage. Burning is a really bad thing because you know you don't want those toxins going into the air. But it's sort of, you know it's a catch-22. Do you want it to go into the air or do you want it to go into the ground?

31:23 - Chelsey (Host)
Into the ground and the groundwater.

31:25 - Heidi (Guest)
Exactly.

31:25 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, yeah, wow. So it sounds like you really have your work cut out for you, but I'm really happy to see have you at OVNTSC and being able to work with you and seeing all the progress that you're making. Is there anything else that you wanted to add? I know it is, you know, our Earth Day special, so I don't know if you have any like messages for people about what they can do, but I like what you were saying before about the onuses being put on the producers of the waste rather than the consumers. So I'm always kind of torn between myself, like trying to do as much as I possibly can but not feeling like I'm making a huge difference because it is the producers of this.

32:10 - Heidi (Guest)
Yes, but as a consumer, you're also responsible for what you, what you buy. Yeah.

32:17 - Chelsey (Host)
Right.

32:17 - Heidi (Guest)
So like, instead of buying cheap plastic toys, you can buy something that's a little more durable. You know like.

32:24
I'm thinking about. You know my nephew's birthday is coming up tomorrow. I'm thinking about, you know my nephew's birthday is coming up tomorrow. So you know, like I'm trying to buy, be more, I guess, just more cognizant of what I'm buying him Things that are more durable, things that aren't going to break right away. Because you know, like when I was a lot younger, I would just buy things that were cheaper, but then I ended up having to get rid of them a lot quicker.

32:48
You know like I would buy $20 shoes rather than you know like $150 shoes.

32:51 - Chelsey (Host)
I was going to mention that too. Like fast fashion, like people, I think, are hopefully becoming a little bit more conscious about that and like sites like Shein and like things like that, where it's like super cheap clothing just made out of plastic and then you wear it a couple of times and it breaks and you have to dispose of it. Like textile industry, I hear, is a huge contributor to the climate issues that we're having. Um, is there anything else you wanted to add on to that?

33:18 - Heidi (Guest)
I mean like my sister and I love yard sale season. You know like coming up, it is coming up and I'm really excited about it. So you know like a lot of stuff in my household is secondhand. My sister is a huge fan of secondhand clothing, especially with a growing child.

33:36
You know, it's very rare that my nephew had anything that was brand new, because he would grow out of it in a couple of months. You know hand-me-downs, you know like that was something that you know I was always used to when I was growing up and just yeah, just sort of like I've always been a fan of secondhand. You know hitting up Valley Village, or you know like Salvation Army, or you know like what's the other one Like Goodwill?

33:57 - Chelsey (Host)
I think any consignments shops those kind of things.

34:00 - Heidi (Guest)
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm always, I'm always a huge fan of those. Yeah, because, like, I feel like if something's going to be cheap, it's going to fall apart in your home, but if it's well built, it's something that can be, you know, like, imagine finding like a $50, like old chest you know, like at a yard sale, yeah, incredible, yeah, yeah, and it's like taking pieces and upcycling them as well.

34:23 - Chelsey (Host)
Right, like I've heard of that as well before.

34:30 - Heidi (Guest)
Like so taking some textiles and repurposing it into like quilts, something, yeah, yeah, anything, yeah. But I mean, you know, like I used to um, my grandmother used to fix everything yeah you know like presents that we'd give her.

34:37
She would so carefully unwrap the gift to not rip the paper and then she would, you know we'd be sitting there like, come on, grandma. You know like hurry up and open your present. But she would just that was just her mentality, was. You know, I don't waste anything, I can reuse this paper, it's beautiful. You know she would make cards or you know, rewrap gifts and, um, yeah, my grandma was always, you know, like sewing and you know like those are just that's sort of like a lost art. You know, I know it's being picked up again. I know a lot of people that are making ribbon skirts and you know things like could you imagine, you know like a ribbon skirt made out of like an infant's old clothing?

35:12 - Chelsey (Host)
you know, like I feel like we are coming full circle, and I hope that we are because, you know, it just seems like in the 40s and 50s, like milk was made out of putting glass containers and I'm just like we can is glass a bit. I'm assuming glass is much better than plastic, so is that something that we could return to?

35:30 - Heidi (Guest)
No, it's just super interesting, because the reason why plastic became so popular was that you know, like you would drop a glass of milk on the floor and it would just shatter Right. And you drop a plastic bottle of milk on the floor and it would just bounce Right, and you know like. So the you know, the reason why plastic became so popular was because it was durable, it was cheap, it didn't break down. And now the reason why plastic is bad is because it doesn't break down.

35:59
You know Because durable, is cheap and it doesn't break down Exactly, yeah, so, and that's why it's such a problem. You know, like I do have a glass water bottle, I didn't bring it today, I wish I did. But you know, like I do have a glass water bottle, I didn't bring it today, I wish I did. But I do have a glass water bottle that I use.

36:13
It's wrapped in silicone so that if it does fall, you know it'll absorb that. But yeah, I mean, like glass is making a comeback, I reuse my glass Classico jars as cups at home.

36:24
Yeah, I mean it is coming back full circle. Yeah, I mean it is coming back full circle. You know, we tried to. We thought that, coming into this disposable society, that things would be just cheap and easy and convenient. But we're realizing that cheap and easy and convenient is so detrimental to the environment that we have to go back and kind of slow down. You know, sort of take it easy now because it's having such an effect. You know like we're seeing it in terms of, like, climate change, global warming. I mean we only had like two solid snowfalls this past winter. Yeah, and I just, you know, look at my nephew and I just worry about his future and just, yeah, it's pretty wild, it can be pretty scary, but sometimes I can be optimistic when it comes to it.

37:09
When I'm walking around in the bush with my reusable water bottle, I feel totally fine.

37:13 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, yeah, you feel like you're a superwoman, exactly. Yeah, oh, that's awesome.

37:19 - Heidi (Guest)
So, yeah, I don't know if you had anything else you wanted to touch on today, but I don't think so, I mean, I think one more thing I could touch on here is just reflecting on the new waste hierarchy. So we got, you know, growing up I always heard about reduce, reuse, recycle, which kind of became a mantra in my head. That said over and over again, the way that the sort of the world that I'm in now is looking at. It is. The first one is rethink. So rethink your purchases, rethink how you're going to use it, rethink the type of materials that you're, that you're purchasing, and then reduce. How can I reduce the waste? How can I reuse this? How can I recycle it?

38:00
And then the final ones being um, recovery and um and landfilling. So can this? Can this material be recovered? Yeah, um, is there a way for this material to be recycled if I'm only using it once? And then, when you're looking at something and you're about to throw it into the garbage, just remember it's going to stay in a landfill forever if it's not going to be recycled, rethink.

38:20 - Chelsey (Host)
I love that because it just that it needs to be. Rethink at the very beginning, because sometimes I'm guilty of it as well, like I will buy stuff that I don't need, yeah, and we'll, yeah, hate to say it end up in the landfill. So I am so thankful to you for the reminder. This conversation to me, has just been like eye-opening and I am just like looking at life through a whole new lens now. So awesome, uh, miigwech, heidi, thank you so much for being here.

38:51
Miigwech thanks for the opportunity. Thank you, talk to you again soon. Okay, bye-bye.