This month Host Chelsey Johnson sits down with Josh Goodman, a Mechanical Millwright, and Tyler Tenniscoe, a Millwright Apprentice, to share insights into their roles, responsibilities, and the collaborative work they do to maintain water and wastewater treatment plants across many first Nations communities.

They explain the nature of their hands-on training and the structure of the millwright apprenticeship program, including the balance between on-the-job learning and classroom education. 

The following is an auto-generated transcript provided by Podium*

00:04 - Chelsey (Host)
Scano Sago Siguli Ani. Good day, Hello everybody, and welcome back to Technically Speaking Ontario First Nations Technical Services Corporation's monthly podcast. I'm your host, Chelsea Johnson, and today is going to be a very special day because for the first time in the history of the podcast we actually have two guests today and we've dubbed them the Wonders from the Thunders Joshua Goodman, both on OFN TSC's hub team, going out to communities on a weekly basis to help with their water treatment plant operations, and they are going to sit down with us today to explore what they do and as well as share some personal anecdotes and stories and kind of a really interesting backstory as to how they actually realize that they're related. So, without further ado, please join me in welcoming Tyler and Josh.

01:12
So you guys are both on the hub team. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you guys do and each of your positions? I know, josh, you're the industrial mechanic millwright with hub, and then tyler, you are a hub millwright apprentice. So how do you guys work together and what do you guys do in the hub program?

01:30 - Tyler  (Guest)
so, uh, so what josh does is he's the uh, what's considered the journeyman. So with his part of the position, he's the one that does a lot of the work within the water and the wastewater plants for our 21 different communities and he does a lot anything mechanical, so anything the pumps, valves, things like that A little bit of everything essentially. And Millwright is pretty much just a basically professional jack of all trades, master of none, yeah, and then my job as the apprentice, because I'm going through all the levels to eventually attain the same level as what he has become a full fledged journeyman. I'm basically right on his heel, asking questions, learning what I can to do within the trade and anything new that I can learn and apply to my own learning, like my own understanding.

02:17 - Josh (Guest)
So basically we go around and make sure that everything is being maintained right proper greasing, checking pumps, checking anything, anything around the whole plant basically, and making sure they have spare equipment in case of malfunctions and stuff like that. Or we're getting quotes and making sure they get the right equipment when they buy stuff. A lot of my work experience came from working in the Thunder Bay pulp and paper mill and I worked for a local company called Peterson Machine and I did my whole apprenticeship there, worked there for about 11 years, and it was a rebuild shop. So I know how to rebuild pumps, gearboxes, everything weld and I got a great experience there and, uh, putting a lot of that experience into helping the first nations and their water treatment facilities and wastewater that is so cool.

03:12 - Chelsey (Host)
So this isn't a type of role where you have like a a formal, like in school training, like is it mostly on the job?

03:20 - Josh (Guest)
uh, yeah, so when, like when we go to school, when you're an apprentice, you work 10 months and then you go to school for two and you got to do that for three years.

03:33 - Chelsey (Host)
Oh, okay. So, Tyler, where are you in that process?

03:36 - Tyler  (Guest)
So currently, as of this past April, I wrapped up my first year of trade school. Right now, for the millwright program, we work out of the manual that was produced in the province of British Columbia and that's used a lot in the majority of the provinces across Canada and I think the last time that manual was actually updated was back in 1996. And what we're doing now is that the Millwright program is currently a three-year program, so three years of working for 10 months and then going to school for another two months. But what they're trying to do is they're trying to get out of using the BC manual and switching to the manual that's used in Alberta, where it extends it by another year. So instead of three it's a four-year program. You get more classroom time but also you get more time to do on-the-job training and better your understanding of the ongoings and the actual schematics of the job.

04:28
Um, and that actually the math and the valbert manuals actually gets updated, I believe every three to five years, um, somewhere in there. I think that's you're doing all your schooling at confederation. Yeah, right here in town, so it's, it's a two-minute drive from my, so it's really really convenient.

04:45
Yeah.

04:47 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, so you're doing the schooling and then you're also learning firsthand from Josh. Is that how? Yeah, so okay, because, josh, since you have the, you've completed it, you're able to now train somebody else.

05:00 - Tyler  (Guest)
Yeah, because I'll have like in school teachers and then he's the on the job teacher. Yeah.

05:04 - Josh (Guest)
And the nice thing is, to a lot of the guys that are teaching in there. I went, I worked with them, alongside them, and they're all amazing.

05:11 - Chelsey (Host)
That's awesome, yeah. So how, like? How did you guys come into the hub program? And you know why did you decide to to do this job? Because it's very demanding in terms of travel.

05:31 - Josh (Guest)
You know you're traveling constantly, every week, week, so you have to have a passion for it, I'm assuming. Oh yeah, I was. It was a very hard change in job, careers and adjusting, but it was definitely the better out of everything. It changed my life around and, uh it, I love it, and the people that you get to meet, people that we work with I can't say any more better things than that. But definitely hard on the road, though, definitely hard. Definitely you miss home sometimes my dog, my mom and dad, so I have my sister at home too, but they help out lots.

06:02 - Tyler  (Guest)
My dog gets taken care of by them when I'm gone yeah it's good yeah, and tyler um, yeah, and I actually uh before I came in. When I first started working for the hub I um. Prior to that I actually had no uh experience working in the trades or anything. I actually um previously. I attended and I got a degree at Lakehead University here in Thunder Bay and worked in social work for about six years.

06:28 - Chelsey (Host)
Oh, wow.

06:28 - Tyler  (Guest)
With different Indigenous youth organizations around Thunder Bay like Delico, nokia and Tribal Council, and then eventually I ended up landing a job working in the district jail here in Thunder Bay as a native inmate liaison officer. I did that for a couple of years as a native inmate liaison officer. I did that for a couple of years. It took about six years of working with people to realize I don't really like working with people. So I was just kind of considering a career change after a little while. After doing it.

06:59
I also like to note that my hat's off to the people that do it for a living and absolutely go every day and try to help people in the best way that they can. You know that's the hardest industry in my opinion, is people. I actually was reached out to by Josh here. Actually he said hey, by the way, there are potentially there's going to be, they're going to be looking for a millwright apprentice to hire here at OFN TSC. So yeah, throw your name in the hat and see what happens and about. I think a week or two went by and I got offered the position and it wasn't really a hard decision. Like I was grateful for the experience working in the social work setting and things like that. But I'm really grateful for the change to jump over and actually do work in the trades and get a and get a ticket out of it, which is pretty, uh, pretty incredible, you know.

07:48 - Josh (Guest)
I think I think too, what really helps is both of us being together on the road. Yeah, definitely helps.

07:54 - Chelsey (Host)
True, yeah, so can you talk a little bit more about that? I know you guys are related, but you were talking how you didn't really realize it until a couple of years ago.

08:03 - Tyler  (Guest)
Yeah, so the way that it worked with us is like I guess, in terms of how we found out we were related, was 23andMe.

08:13 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah.

08:13 - Tyler  (Guest)
Oh.

08:14 - Josh (Guest)
Yeah, it was through Ancestry what we found out was my mom's mom, my nana.

08:18 - Tyler  (Guest)
She was actually adopted out and her mom, my great grandmothergrandmother, was Goodman. She was one of the 10 siblings, so she was actually Glenn Goodman's aunt actually, beatrice Goodman was her name and she ended up, yeah, had a kid that nobody knew about, except our great-uncle, frank Goodman, who recently passed, and he was kind of, he was the vault of the family. He kept a lot of stuff quiet, hush-hush, and my Nana, my mom, got this thing for my Nana I can't remember if it was Anastasia or 23andMe, I think it was 23andMe and she did the stuff. And then she had a direct, she had like a 98.7% match with one of her first cousins actually, who was another son of one of the 10 siblings there, and said, oh, you gotta meet the family here and they were all from Anipukwusikaigan and Anishinaabeg, from the First Nation community just outside of Lake Nipigan.

09:11
And yeah, my nana, my mom and I, we all got to go meet majority of our cousins, some of the other senior siblings there before they passed. And, yeah, I actually. And then, coming up to meeting Josh, I actually met his sister first, actually of all things, his sister and his dad, and then later we just talked on Instagram for a while, yeah, for like a few months it was like hey, what's going on?

09:34
And then finally met in person.

09:37 - Josh (Guest)
I think it was at Wake the Giant Picked him up, blah, chit-chatted and then finally met in person. I think it was at Wicked Giant First Wicked Giant. It was Wicked Giant. Yeah, picked him up, Screwed, you thought I was tackling him.

09:45 - Tyler  (Guest)
Yeah, pretty much yeah. And then, yeah, being on the road together it's pretty good because it's not like you know you're trying to. There's nothing you don't not talk about. I guess I don't think it's pretty cool to be.

09:59 - Chelsey (Host)
You get to know people really fast when you're just driving in a car together.

10:02 - Tyler  (Guest)
Oh exactly yeah no, and it's. It's one of those things where it's like you, there's never been a moment where it's like oh, thank god, you know, I get it some time away from the guy. Like we've had moments where he's dropped me off after a long trip, like coming back recently from uh working up in wagoshi, which is about a ten and a half, almost eleven hour drive plus or minus, with all the construction that's currently happening, and as soon as he drops me off, I'll get a call from him like an hour later. Oh, my god, guess what just happened.

10:26 - Josh (Guest)
Blah, blah blah yeah, so there's no yeah, no, there's never been any. On the road, too, we're always trying to do different adventures, finding different places to go hike, or, if it's hunting season, we're going out shooting birds. If we can, yeah, I'm catching dinner for the evening?

10:44 - Tyler  (Guest)
yeah, and they always have emergency fishing rods in the back seat.

10:48 - Chelsey (Host)
You know, emergencies only yeah, that's the main thing. You guys are, um, you know, you guys are both very like connected the culture. Can you talk a little bit more about that? And I know I think, tyler, you're a speaker as well- yes, I speak.

11:06 - Tyler  (Guest)
By no means do I claim to be fluent in the language, but I speak fairly decently from my Anishinaabemowin and a little bit of the language, as I would say I understand and I speak a little bit of the language. As I would say I understand and I speak a little bit of the language. I should have said as well, just a little bit. Yeah, just, that was something I was always grew up around. A little bit later in life, actually, it was the language part, but, yeah, the land-based aspect of the culture.

11:36
I grew up on a trap line my whole life. I was hunting, fishing, I was trapping. I recall when I was younger, when I was a kid, I'd be coming home from school and if I didn't have any homework, I was brought into the garage where my dad and my grandfather and my great-grandmother were there. She would have beaver skins laid over her lap and she'd be fleshing beaver right in the garage and I was doing that portion. I'm also, uh, involved in the other aspects of the culture. I am a drum carrier, I'm a member of a group called english river singers and, um, I'm a men's traditional slash, men's woodland dancer as well. Um, so I spent a lot of time on the powwow circuit during the summertime and and at ceremony and at ceremony as well, so that uh, that plays a huge part in uh in my life and how I carry myself, and not only personally but even on the job as well.

12:25 - Chelsey (Host)
How did you? What language program did you take?

12:30 - Tyler  (Guest)
It was kind of like a 50-50 with the language, like a little bit my like, unfortunately, my great-grandmother and all her siblings. They did go through that residential school system, my Auntie Bunny. She kept a little bit of the language and she would say little things here and there, like you know, when I was younger she would say this is how you say thank, you say miigwech. And then even I thought at one point there my Anishinaabe name was Gego, which means don't in the language.

12:59 - Chelsey (Host)
She was always saying that, yeah, pretty much.

13:03 - Tyler  (Guest)
But and then later on In high school I got the opportunity To learn some Learn from a couple Of different Language carriers and that was Because mandatory you had to take A grade nine French, which was Like all province wide. You had to take that. But then for the next Three years of high school you can either do the three years of French or you can take three years of Ojibwe. And I was like go try Ojibwe, see what that's like, and I absolutely fell in love with it and it was like getting back a part of yourself. Like the old teaching I was always told was that we all carry that ability to speak our language as Anishinaabe and as indigenous people. But it's that process we go through to awaken that special part, that spiritual part of ourselves and being able to learn it again. And it becomes as easy as breathing. And that's my joke, that's something I always say too. When I, if I stutter or I accidentally mispronounce an English word, I say, well, that's not my true language.

13:58 - Josh (Guest)
I said that's not the language that's true to me and what we speak, so but yeah, I started drumming with Tyler and he's been teaching me songs and helping me along with that and it's been very healing along this journey. Along this journey and I've been going to powwows with him and on and off and slowly starting to make my regalia and currently making my own split-toe moccasins and beating them right now and just taking my time making sure that it's all done right, but that's one of my other pastimes. I like crafting and I started getting into that.

14:37 - Tyler  (Guest)
And that's yeah, that's even another thing on our, on our drives, to point out stuff in the language to help you, and he'll help me out with a lot of the language and stuff too Slowly learning.

14:47 - Josh (Guest)
I never really got the opportunity to learn Ojibwe or anything like that. So it's a. It's definitely a. It's a big step, lots to learn, but uh yeah, just keep trucking.

15:01 - Chelsey (Host)
Yep, lots to learn, but uh, yeah, just keep trucking. Yep, yeah, and I think, tyler, you said too, you try to bring it into like you know your, your work. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Like how does it impact your role that you have here?

15:09 - Tyler  (Guest)
so so the way I kind of, I kind of see it, uh, like bringing it like that whole aspect of my culture and how that applies to my job, it you know there's so much I understand, like when you're going into certain communities, especially communities where sometimes the relationship with outside organizations whether it's, you know, whether it's contracting organizations, even if they're there to help, like in water and wastewater, or government agencies organizations, even if they're there to help, like in water and wastewater, or government agencies it's taken the time to only understand, like the personal, cultural and spiritual significance of that. But it's also knowing that historical. You know the last time when lots of times government agencies and that were coming into reserves it wasn't a very good experience when that was in. So it was understanding to have, you know, that respect and that you know that respect between two individuals, whether it's the plant operator talking to representatives within the band office or anything like that. But it's also understanding, you know being cautious about it too, not necessarily in a way where you got to tiptoe around conversations, but it's understanding.

16:23
You know in certain communities what happened there in the past and what's the best way to approach when helping people and sometimes it shows that sense of comfortability when, when we come in and we show that understanding of the culture, understanding of the language, even not just cultural aspects but even like even social aspects. You know the conversations, you know the mannerisms, things like that. You know it's such, it plays such a huge part with coming in and and interacting with the individuals and the operators within these communities, or representatives, and try to explain. You know we're not here to, we're not, we're here not to do anything except help and make sure everybody has clean drinking water.

17:02 - Josh (Guest)
You know, and I think that's you know that's not something that's by choice, that's everyone's right to have that water and it's a nice feeling to have when you come in and the operator there is happy to see you and to start off a conversation right away and just tell you how his week's been going. Or what a conversation right away and just tell you how his week's been going or what, whatever comes up and it's, uh, it's a good feeling, yeah, absolutely.

17:24 - Tyler  (Guest)
And then I think it's even the consistency as well, because it's not like, oh, you're coming in and you're gone and we don't see you again, or whatever. It's communication. It's that communication like hey, by the way, I don't know if you need anything done, we're going to be coming up this week or the following week. Um, if you're available for a visit, and nine times out of ten it's very much like yes, absolutely. Yeah, when you guys come and buy, it might have some for you, or just come by for a visit and you know things, things like that. You know it's just slowly building those relationships with those community members that's so awesome to hear.

17:54 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, how many uh communities are you guys going to on an average?

17:57 - Josh (Guest)
There's 21 communities. Some of them don't need as much attention because they're just a distribution. Eventually try and get to some of those places. But that's quite a few, quite a bit. It's a lot of traveling Anywhere from Peowannock way up in Hudson's's bay to down south in hiawatha and awash and yeah so do you guys mostly drive?

18:23 - Chelsey (Host)
are you flying sometimes?

18:24 - Josh (Guest)
drive and fly, drive and fly. Yeah, a lot of driving, like because thunder bay is the the hub of around a lot of reserves that we go to, there's a lot of along the shoreline of lake superior that we go to um west of here, uh, and then it's easy to fly out of thunder bay. We take we usually fly to toronto and then drive out from there and branch out. So it's a busy lifestyle but it's great yeah for sure.

18:55 - Chelsey (Host)
You guys are both fairly, fairly young. You know you're on the younger side. Oh, thank you.

19:04 - Josh (Guest)
I don't feel like it sometimes, I know.

19:06 - Chelsey (Host)
My body's falling apart. I was telling Tyler, my back went out, and so you know we're all getting older. But you know, one of the big things that we're trying to do here at OFN TSC is to encourage the next generation of youth to kind of get into some of these technical careers. And do you guys have any advice that you'd like to share?

19:29 - Josh (Guest)
I used to sit on a youth council for my band. I used to try and help out. I still try and help out. So any of the stuff that I see come through emails I'll usually put it forward to one of the youth coordinators at our band office and try and get kids more involved, because I'd like to see more kids get trained in the trades or in water or whatever the experiences are. They have to know what's out there, they have to understand it, and if they don't know, they don't know. They want to try it or do it.

19:59 - Tyler  (Guest)
So that's a that's a huge thing yeah, and I love working with kids and trying to get things going and still being involved with certain things yeah, um, I'd say, uh, if there's one specific piece of advice is uh, I would say, don't chase away your curiosity. Always, like you know, I know as a young kid we actually had one when we were working in Mishkiwakamanga. His name is little Xander, that little one. He's about as tall as yeah, tall as that fridge. Tall as that fridge, yeah, yeah, he calls that fridge, yeah.

20:29
And he would come out and just we'd be working in some of the sea cans for their little sites where it only distributes water to maybe three or four houses, and they had three, I think three of these stations up in Muskego and while we're working in there just doing our maintenance, we'd see this little head poke in and look inside the sea can and just absolutely curious and just wants to see how everything works and stuff. And so when I think about some advice for youth, I think about that. You know, if you're ever curious, don't be afraid to look in and take a look, ask, ask questions always, always ask questions. And if there's something that interests you, you know more such things as stupid, quite absolutely. You know there's always. You know you want to learn, you want to show that initiative. Don't be afraid to reach out and say like, hey, this is something I like and it interests me, it's something I want to do. Can you know what? What are the next steps? What can I do to work towards that goal?

21:23 - Chelsey (Host)
yeah and uh, so you guys are, are both kind of going well, josh, you're already there, you're already the um mechanic, the mill, right, right. And Tyler, you're on your way to becoming the mill, right, is that? So that's well of working with machinery, is that?

21:39 - Josh (Guest)
yeah, yeah what it is yeah, anything industrial from pumps, gear boxes can. Well, there's no conveyors and water plants but and it could be anything because it's a wide span of variety of in the industry and it pump, piping, plumbing there's. We even get to learn a little bit of electrical here and there, so it's you kind of have an understanding of what you're dealing with. Yeah, it's a whole safety aspect of it too, right?

22:11 - Tyler  (Guest)
yeah, cuz, even just for the millwright trade. It doesn't even span just specifically to water, because you'll see millwrights in those industrial settings, like Josh was saying your pulp and paper mills, your sawmills, bakeries you see them in bakeries as well, factories car factories, millwrights could be anywhere.

22:31 - Chelsey (Host)
What are some of the other trades that you would encourage youth to look into?

22:37 - Josh (Guest)
Electrician.

22:39 - Tyler  (Guest)
Millwright is the only trade.

22:40 - Chelsey (Host)
It's the only real trade.

22:43 - Tyler  (Guest)
Can.

22:44 - Josh (Guest)
I be a chicken.

22:47 - Tyler  (Guest)
I would definitely encourage electrician Electricians. Despite some of the teasing that they go through from the other trades, they make very, very big money. Well, not just that. Welding is good carpentry. You're doing a lot of out-of-town work, but you're building houses for people, which is really nice. What they're hungry for right now, I've noticed, is crane operators. Crane operating is another big one, for sure. Masonry work. So like your lock stone, your brick and stuff like that routing and tiling.

23:18 - Josh (Guest)
It's amazing how many trades are actually out there, from tin bashing to roofing. Is a trade HVAC?

23:27 - Tyler  (Guest)
HVAC, that's like all your duct work for your air conditioning and your heating and your households and stuff. I'd say in the Thunder Bay area especially if you wanted to get into a trade I'd look into like your HVAC, like your heating and your air conditioning and stuff like that you can make very, very, very good money doing that.

23:46 - Chelsey (Host)
Are all trades. You know you're kind of working with your hands more Like you know what do you?

23:50 - Josh (Guest)
guys find rewarding about that your hands more like you know. Yeah, what do you guys find rewarding about that? I think, uh, when a job goes well and you're just struggling on it for a while and then it just plans out like or even hearing the operator say, like damn, that looks like it's running nice and straight now, or like just stuff like that, like it's a's an accomplishment, especially after you've been struggling on it for a while. And the hot sweat.

24:17 - Tyler  (Guest)
I'd say like, specifically with the millwright trade. It helps if you have a little bit of like, a little bit of struggle, but even just a little tiny bit of a perfectionist personality. It makes it just cause if something's all maybe like a thousandth of an inch, you're just like a little bit more a little bit.

24:33
You know what can we do to align that just perfectly. That's awesome. Um, machinist sorry, that's what I want, I was thinking it was another good one is machinist. That ties right in with the millwright trade as well, because a lot of the motor and gearbox components and stuff we may see too. You gotta know a little bit of machinist work, machinist measuring techniques. To know, okay, for precision, how wide is a gear or a sprocket or anything have to be making, or even making it as well too rebuilding it you can.

25:00 - Josh (Guest)
If a shaft is totally gone, you can machine your brand new shaft and make it all back to brand new again yep, yeah.

25:08 - Tyler  (Guest)
for any of you that look into that, the best way to learn more about it is talk to your union host, reach out, see if there's a local one within your area and ask like hey, how do I get an apprenticeship? What's the information about the trade? How does the apprenticeship work? How long is it? What money can I get out of it? Is there any? And there are grants too, for apprentices as well, that are available.

25:29 - Josh (Guest)
a lot of the ways too. I've seen kids get apprenticeships is, uh, they start off as a driver laborer in a company and then the apprenticeship comes up, they have room and they hire them on and get them going in the in the industry. And you see that a lot, yeah, you start out as a supervisor of the shovels.

25:48 - Tyler  (Guest)
Yeah, you're on a shovel shovel all day, but you know you work way up and you build your credit.

25:54 - Josh (Guest)
You just show initiative. That's the main thing If you show you have interest in something. That's how I got my apprenticeship. I did my high school co-op for the company and this old Croatian guy, ivan, was one of the big influences on that and he picked me out and he said as soon as the apprenticeship came up, that and he picked me out and he said as soon as the apprenticeship came up, they ended up hiring me right away and I worked for them for 11 years Awesome.

26:22 - Chelsey (Host)
Thank you guys so much for sitting down with us. Did you want to add anything else for our listeners?

26:28 - Tyler  (Guest)
Chi-miigwetch.

26:28 - Chelsey (Host)
Thank you for having us here.

26:30 - Tyler  (Guest)
Thanks for listening, guys. That's about it Back on the road.

26:34 - Josh (Guest)
we go Back on the road we go.

26:36 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, miigwetch, and yeah, thanks to our listeners and, as always, stay tuned for our next episode and until then, take care.

26:45 - Josh (Guest)
Yep, thank you, thank you, thank you.