This month Host Chelsey Johnson sits down with Erica Tropea to talk about working in OFNTSC's Environmental service including her work coordinating The First Nation-led Source Water Protection Planning Workshops, working in landfills, and combating climate change.

Erica also gives her perspective on being a woman in a STEM-focused career and offers some advice to young women who may be considering a career in a technical field.

The following is an auto-generated transcript provided by Podium*

00:04 - Chelsey (Host)
hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of OFN TSC's technically speaking podcast. As always, I'm your host, chelsea Johnson, and today we have a special guest. We're actually here in the Thunder Bay office sitting down with Erica Tropea, so I'm super, super excited she is our. I'm sorry, help me out with your title a little bit, erica, it's the lead environmental senior environmental senior environmental scientist.

00:32
So thank you so much for sitting down with us today, erica. Yes, no problem, happy to be here, awesome. So to get us started, I think we'll just ask you a couple of questions about you. Know what's your background and how did you come to work at OFNTSC?

00:47 - Erica (Guest)
For sure, so, yeah, my background is more like in the biology sciencey field I started, I did my undergrad degree at Lakehead University and I did biology and then after that I did a master's in environmental studies.

01:06 - Chelsey (Host)
And that was also at.

01:06 - Erica (Guest)
Lakehead, that was at Queens. Oh, okay, perfect, yeah. So my master's was more focused on, like, water quality.

01:16 - Chelsey (Host)
How did you decide to go into that program? Because, I mean, you were at our STEM camp this week and we're trying to get more youth interested in taking studying subjects like biology, like environmental sciences, things like that. Like what was the kind of inspiration for you to go into that field?

01:32 - Erica (Guest)
I think first, really like when I started university, I really didn't know like what I wanted to do for a job and I just knew that I really liked science, like I really liked biology, I also liked chemistry.

01:43
So I actually started with a double major in chemistry and biology, with the idea that I wanted to pick one, and then, I think, after semester one, I was like, okay, I like biology more. I just really like the way like learning about how like animals interact and how everything's connected and like the land, the water, all that stuff, and how humans play a role and and our impact and all that. So, yeah, I think. And then also, like, with climate change becoming at the time it was becoming more and more well known and talked about, so then I was really interested in that. Like I think I had gone back and forth. I wanted to help people was like my idea for my career, and so I looked at physiotherapy for a little bit, I looked at all these other things. I got a job in finance for a year and then I realized, you know, like working with the environment is actually helping people in a huge way, right for sure.

02:37 - Chelsey (Host)
So so in that way, like yeah, that's kind of where I ended up yeah, and then how did you come to work um here at OFNTSC and how long have you been here?

02:45 - Erica (Guest)
So this September will be three years, so yeah, next month. How did I end up here? Well, yeah, so my first job out of my master's, I ended up working at a composting facility, which was kind of random for me at the time. Now it makes sense with where I've ended up. And then I started working at no Kiwin Tribal Council actually after that and uh, so I got to know OFNTSC through no Kiwin and because they're a tribal council, so we worked with with them a little bit and it's a pretty small, I would say, close-knit group of environment folk at the tribal council level. And then when the position opened up here, I threw my hat into the ring and got it. So it was a hard decision to leave because I really liked no key win and they were, they are, they are great. But it was really exciting to go to a company that had like more of a greater range, because you know we work with so many communities, yeah, across the province.

03:39 - Chelsey (Host)
So that was cool. And can you explain a little bit about um like what. Like. What did you learn in biology? Like what? How do you apply what you learned in school to like what you're doing in this role?

03:50 - Erica (Guest)
Yeah, I mean it's all really connected. It ends up being like because I did my, my undergrad so long ago, right, and it's like I'm not remembering everything from them, but it's just. It's just the idea of like understanding the processes of what, what's what's happening with animals and plants, and all that With my master's for sure. That is very applicable and something that's more fresh and I use that all the time when I worked in the lab at Queen's. So, yeah, we do a lot of technical review of project, especially like when there's outside consultants doing work. So that comes.

04:28
It really comes in handy getting to know because there's the documents that we're reading. Often the reports. They're so multifaceted, there's so many different areas, so we might have like an engineer on there, we might have us and, you know, maybe housing, and we can kind of go in and and see what's applicable to what we are. What I know anyways, I know a lot about the water science, that piece of it, and just like how everything's connected and and looking at like a climate change adaptation lens was something that I learned in school and has been really useful to me.

05:01 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, I actually in my master's program I wrote a paper on how indigenous knowledge can help us have more of an empathic look and worldview and hope in hopes that we can help everyone kind of understand that the climate change it's an issue that is going to affect everybody and we need to have that relationship with Mother Earth that's very like respectful. So I almost you know, feel a really strong connection to environment and have considered in the past like going and studying further.

05:40
I also enjoyed, like sciences, and I took I think I took biology and chemistry all the way up until grade 12, like university courses and really enjoyed it. But then when I got to university I went into the humanities and kind of changed courses With that interest like I would love to learn more about exactly what it is that the environment service does here at OFN TSC, because I know bits and pieces of what you guys do but I actually we've never sat down in a formal setting like this and like went through what it is. Yeah.

06:10 - Erica (Guest)
I mean we do a lot of different things Like the environment's so like all-encompassing, really Like and Drew's actually been really good director in saying like we need to really be collaborating with the other departments, because I think an environment plays a piece in every department that we have here. But what do we do specifically? We focus. I mean lots of it ends up depending on what type of funding is available. Right now there is a big push for the solid waste with the solid waste program, so we do a large part of what we do would be in relation to the solid waste management. So that being like getting recycling up and started in communities or expanding a landfill, if that's what's needed, or closing a landfill right now and then creating an agreement with, say, a neighboring municipality or something so that they can get the waste transferred off site.

07:01
Yeah, that's a big one and it really ends up being, from my experience, whatever the community might come to us with an idea that that relates to the environment. You know we work within what we have in our team to see how we can help. Yeah, so whether that's a training, um, you know if we've had, we've had communities come to us saying, okay, we want. We'd like training on freon removal, uh, for example, right, and so that wasn't something that we already had on the docket, but that's something that okay, great, we're gonna try our best to get that training up and running. So if we can't do it, we, you know, hire out and that kind of stuff. So lots of it is like training. In relation to that, heidi's doing a lot of like groundwater monitoring training right now.

07:45 - Chelsey (Host)
Yes, we spoke to Heidi on the podcast. Yeah, nice so she shared a lot of that cool information and I know there's how many people do you have on the team, on the environment team, right now, right Right now? We have three. Okay, so it's you, heidi, and we have a new person, brittany Pigeot. Brittany Pigeot, yeah, pigeot. So what is?

08:01 - Erica (Guest)
Brittany's role as well. She's contaminated site or I guess. Well, her role is environmental specialist and she has some experience in contaminated sites and doing that type of stuff. So that's kind of where we see her fitting into our team, kind of where Deneine had her focus as well, who's now retired. Yes, denine was really interested in the contaminated sites thing. So, yeah, you know, if there's like remediation of a certain um area on reserve, they would be. Well, britney now would be looking at working with the community on that and my niche would be more so it's moving into like the source water protection type projects, because that's what I did my master's on and what I, what I'm most interested in.

08:48 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, the source water protection. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Even you know, get as technical as you want. This is, technically speaking, okay. So we have technical, you know staff listening to the podcast and things like that. So I'm not, I'm a lay person, right, so lay it on me.

09:07 - Erica (Guest)
Well, actually it's funny that you say that, because with the Sourcewater program that we have, actually my goal was to make it really accessible to like the lay person, someone who isn't super technically inclined, because there is a lot of technical stuff that we can get into a source water. But the angle that I had proposed when we were looking at the source water program was to put it back in the hands of the community and have source water protection be something that the community can do themselves and not having to necessarily hire out to get a consultant to come in and do a big report that in the end might sit on a shelf because it didn't have that community input. So what we're wanting to do is really to have source water bring it back to what you were saying and having like an indigenous lens, yeah, and really focusing on that and incorporating the western type science and analyses when, when, needed or wanted. Um, but really bringing it back to incorporating to the original exactly, yeah, you know practice, yeah, and source water protection.

10:11
Like in case people listening aren't sure it is like from a Western perspective, it's it is protecting the source of our drinking water. So whether that's groundwater or groundwater aquifers or from, like rainwater, lakes, rivers, however, people are getting their water and wherever it's being drawn from, it's protecting that. But with the program that we're creating, we are opening that up, opening that scope, because water is not just for drinking and Indigenous peoples know that better than anyone. So we're looking at protecting water that's used for, say, travel, for example, or protecting water that's used for ceremony protecting women's water there's sweet water. Or protecting water that's used for ceremony protecting women's water there's sweet water. There's so many different facets and uses for water than just drinking. So that's what the source water protection program and the planning that we're trying to train on is focused on.

11:14 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you said you mentioned how you guys will source water protection. We just sat down earlier with Glenn and he oversees the hub and CRTP teams. We also have our engineering team, which is under Drew's department with this community on source water protection and they're in the community training the operators on how to use the water treatment plant and it's coming from that same source water that you guys are protecting. How do you guys work together with other departments? What is that like?

11:47 - Erica (Guest)
Yeah, so I would say, drew has been really good in encouraging us to do that more. I know, with the engineering team we've definitely been working on projects together. Now, instead of just having I think before we might just have like one engineer staff or one environment staff, it's now the both of us because we can really lean on each other and the engineers are on so many different projects and vice versa. So that's been really great With working with, say, like Red Rock Indian Band, for example, on their source water protection planning. I've actually been able to go into their water plant and have been making relationships with the people at the water plant. So that's been really great. So I think we are creating that more like holistic and collaborative type project and atmosphere. But it does take a lot of communication. So that's why I really like when we have our like monthly or I don't know, is it monthly?

12:46
I think they're like monthly or bi-monthly or something yeah, because I get to hear what other people are doing, and you're like, okay, yeah, that actually fits in, because it can be hard, because we have so many different projects that everyone's working on, right?

12:56 - Chelsey (Host)
I was gonna say that I'm like everybody is so busy all the time that it's like amazing to collaborate, but sometimes not always feasible or possible, just depending on the different workloads.

13:08
But that's good to hear that you know people are now opening up to being more um you know connected with each other in terms of the departments here, but I also wanted to ask you so. We also had a podcast interview with Melanie DeBosig, our executive director. That was for International Women's Day, and we mentioned that the environment team is all women in the environment team, which was such a cool fact considering that many of these technical careers have been male-dominated for so long, and I wanted to get your take on essentially how can we get more women interested in STEM and even, specifically, the environment field?

13:50 - Erica (Guest)
I mean, I think it's come a long way, like I do think that there's a lot more women in STEM and it's definitely encouraged, and like our department is an example of that, there's three women and even our successors were women, right, um, so it's always kind of been a woman's field, at least in at of ntsc which is interesting because actually, like traditionally, women are responsible for the water.

14:16
Right, they're the carriers of the water. Uh, they're the water keepers. And I mean our department's not all about water, but it all does actually impact the water. Everything that we do, even when we're talking about the landfills and the regulations, it's our department's not all about water, but it all does actually impact the water. Everything that we do, even when we're talking about the landfills and the regulations, it's all related back to water. So I find that really interesting. The way to get women into STEM, I would say just really encouraging women and young girls to experiment and get outside and like ask questions. You know, I think for myself, like I was really interested in the environment because I spent a lot of time outside as a kid and I was always asking questions and my parents were always really they didn't always know the answers, but they would encourage me to find the answers.

15:01 - Chelsey (Host)
So I think, yeah, it sounds like being curious about learning more about your natural environment and just leaning into that curiosity, yeah yeah.

15:12 - Erica (Guest)
I also think, like I know, that when I was younger I was kind of I was really interested in science, but I was kind of afraid to be like labeled a nerd or something. And now I'm, like I am proudly a nerd, like I think that's cool, so like I am proudly a nerd, like I think that's cool, so like I don't know. I just think, especially as you get older too, like that's, I think it's really special to be interested in science and the world around us and I think it's really important to to do that. So I would just tell women and young girls not to like, just tell women and young girls not to like not to dim your own excitement or your own abilities to make I don't know, I guess to make other people feel more comfortable, like if you know the answer, you know, raise your hand and be proud about it.

15:59 - Chelsey (Host)
So that's kind of my Be a Hermione Granger.

16:04 - Erica (Guest)
Yeah, you could go that far.

16:09 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that and thank you for also participating with us at the STEM camp, um, and could you talk a little bit more about what you were demonstrating with the, the youth there?

16:17 - Erica (Guest)
yeah, so we had something called a groundwater simulation model. It's kind of like slicing the earth with a huge knife down and taking a look at what's under the surface and what's there. So it was looking at, like the different types of aquifers that are under the ground. So we would put like dye into the system and see how it, as if it was maybe like to either mimic contamination or just to show where the water is flowing in general. And it was just. You're just able to see how the water flows underneath the ground what would be an example of that contamination as well I mean that could be a lot of things.

16:53
Um, fuel could be one, so there's a in the model you can see like a, an underground storage tank. Um so fuel could be one there could be. One of the ideas was a landfill. Um, so landfills could have is it called leachate?

17:08
yes, yeah, yeah leachate um and a leachate plume under the ground, that's um moving. So really depends on how it sounds scary. It sounds scary but also like landfills are constructed in a way where those plumes should if it's done properly, should only really extend into a certain area and then after that, like there's lots of natural processes that are going on underground that actually are going to break down a lot of that contamination.

17:38 - Chelsey (Host)
So it's not something that should be like scary but definitely just to be made aware, are they constructed to be that way or how to? Or that's just how the ground works.

17:50 - Erica (Guest)
there's it's sort of like just how the ground works, like think of all the microbes and like all the different bacteria that are under the ground, like like there's something called natural attenuation.

18:00
Yeah, so there's landfills where natural attenuation is used, where, as the whatever type of contamination you're looking at and this isn't true for all types like I'm being pretty general but as it seeps through the ground, microbes are eating that and they're like digesting it and they're using it as energy and food, and then by the time it gets to the water table, it's you know, it's actually dissipated and it's not necessarily like a natural filtration.

18:24 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, type of process.

18:25 - Erica (Guest)
Yeah, okay, I get it I mean, that's not always the case and that's why we like grant monitor for contaminants in the groundwater and stuff like that and so yeah, but it's really just depends on how the landfill was constructed in the first place, because lots of times, like for a landfill, there's going to be a confining layer, there's going to be a layer that's going to kind of keep everything in, and that's the goal. Yeah, sometimes we get what's considered like a dump and really it's just a hole in the ground where things get dumped there, and so there's not necessarily that layer that's keeping all that leachate in so there's a difference between a dump and a landfill?

19:02 - Chelsey (Host)
wow, technically yes yeah, I love doing this podcast because I feel like I'm learning so much and I just love learning new things.

19:09 - Erica (Guest)
Yeah, so um, the words get used interchangeably a lot, but like, technically speaking, like a landfill would be something that's like like an engineered landfill, like constructed very thoughtfully, whereas a dump, for the most part, would be considered something that's really just kind of like a hole in the ground or somebody just says pick a a land, pick a spot, and we're just going to throw our garbage. There's not usually as much thought into where they are. Yeah.

19:33 - Chelsey (Host)
And how does the landfill work? Like you know, we hear about all these like plastics are going to take forever to break down and you know, if you have like a big like I'm thinking I have this big plastic Barbie doll house sitting in my basement and if that's going to go in the landfill at some point it was from when I was a child, by the way- I just want to clarify that and like, how like.

19:58
is there mechanisms in place within the landfill to help facilitate this breakdown process or are we just waiting for it to? Whatever happens, happens, kind of thing?

20:08 - Erica (Guest)
that's a really good question the mechanism that I would say that is used is really just source separation. So, like at certain landfills, um, you'll have, you know, the separation of metals in one area, bulk bulk materials in one, plastics in another, stuff like that, and having so, for example, having composting or having an organics being separated out. So when it comes to plastics breaking down, I'm not really aware of anything that can really make that happen faster in a sustainable and environmentally friendly way. But yeah, but that said, doing that source separation is going to help because if you're separating out, say, the tires, then those can actually get maybe repurposed, and same with the metals, and same with bulk items. You know, if there's like wood products, for example, like some of that can be repurposed reused.

21:06
Yes, I've seen at landfills like there was like a a bike shed type thing, so all old bikes go there and then people just come and grab them and maybe they put two bikes together and use the wheel from one and you know, so it things can get reused. And then I would say, like composting or not, putting your food waste into the landfill is also major, because, yeah, that's going to kind of affect how, if it's, um, if food waste is actually put in the landfill versus put in a composter, the breakdown time is so much longer in a landfill and it's releasing more greenhouse gases where, if it's in a composter, it's happening really quickly.

21:46
Very little greenhouse gases are emitted, so it's just a lot more sustainable I think heidi did mention something about that and her podcast um you know, it's interesting actually, because we did a training in mishpacotten for with heidi, uh, groundwater monitoring training, and we spent a lot of time at the landfill.

22:02
We were actually monitoring wells, uh, doing some testing at the wells at the landfill. We were actually monitoring wells, doing some testing at the wells at the landfill, and we were all like eating our lunch and yada, yada, and you have like the plastic lunch thing after the plastic waste, and we had like a little garbage bag that we're putting everything in. And it was just so interesting Heidi and I were talking about it, about like the disconnect, because like we were like, oh no, this needs to go, like in this garbage bag, and then whatever. But then other people there were just throwing it off into the garbage pits, yeah, and like I mean that's perfectly acceptable. We're at a landfill, there's this big trench where the garbage is going to go, like we were putting it in this garbage bag that we were bringing back to our hotel to put in the garbage can there. So like this is a disconnect, I think everyone should spend more time at landfills, to be honest because you just get to see like, oh my gosh, like there is just so much waste.

22:53
I want to come to the landfill.

22:53 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, you should. Yeah, I'll come.

22:56 - Erica (Guest)
Yeah, invite me to the next landfill meeting. You might bring nose plugs or something. It doesn't smell as bad as you think.

23:03 - Chelsey (Host)
I wanted to kind of switch focus now and talk about something that I know that we all like, really, really are caring about and worried about. But, like climate change and what is the environment service here at OFNTSC Like, how do you guys approach such a humongous?

23:22 - Erica (Guest)
issue. Yeah, it is such a humongous issue and actually I think it's something that I think every department in Idaho FNTSC can really have an impact and incorporate into their services, especially because with climate change now at least from the studies that I look at it's we aren't necessarily trying to stop climate change. We're trying to adapt and make sure that our communities are resilient.

23:51 - Chelsey (Host)
So stopping climate change is now off the table. In terms of the scientists, pretty much.

23:57 - Erica (Guest)
More or, less, more or less.

23:59 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, like I don't want to sound and now it's like, okay, well, how do we adapt to what's already happening? It is it is.

24:05 - Erica (Guest)
That is the case. It's how do we adapt? And that doesn't mean stop all your actions of protecting the climate or protecting the earth and whatnot, but it's just that, yeah, we are kind of past the point, necessarily, of saying we can stop it Past the point of no return, basically, yeah and it's like we are just going to learn how to adapt from this point and not make it worse, Right, you know, like that's kind of the point For our department, we don't necessarily have anything yet.

24:37
That is like specifically climate change, but I would say it's an undertone of everything that we do. So it's related to everything. All the different products that we're a part of and a part of all the advice that we might give communities is going to have climate change in mind. I do know that we are looking at possibly getting a more dedicated climate change adaptation coordinator. Let's call it position guess. I guess it's kind of like based on funding.

25:11 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, yeah, because I know just even in my own conversations with Drew, that is something that he is also very passionate about is how do we, you know, protect against climate change or adapt to climate change? What are the impacts that you're seeing within communities from climate change?

25:29 - Erica (Guest)
Yeah, I mean a lot. So actually, when I worked at no Kiwin, we did like I was part of a group where part of my job title was like climate change specialist. So we went to members to find what they were noticing and there was a lot of impact. So different species that used to be there that no longer are so like berries and certain traditional medicines that used to be in certain areas may not grow there anymore because the conditions are no longer, uh, suitable. So it's getting a lot. What you're going to find with climate change is that it's not like it's going to be super hot all the time. But we're going to find with climate change is that it's not like it's going to be super hot all the time. But we're going to see which I think is a bit of a misconception because it used to be called global warming, right, which we don't really use that word anymore but you're seeing more drastic fluctuations. So you're seeing more drastic fluctuations. So you're seeing more extreme temperatures, so extreme cold and extreme heat and stuff like that.

26:31 - Chelsey (Host)
I think the summer's already been the hot, the new hottest.

26:34 - Erica (Guest)
I think it's already the newest, yeah and like, for example. So we're seeing things like with the winter roads, like the winter road season last year was just so short, like you're going to get those extreme periods of cold, but now they might not last as long, or wildfires as well.

26:47
Yes wildfires like crazy. I mean, from like a human health perspective, we're seeing disease transfer I mean, covid was a huge one and when it comes to heat, like having you know accommodating for that. So maybe that means now we need to have some cooling centers where people can go where there's air conditioning, because we haven't had that or or places where it is I mean it's always been kind of cold, like up here in Thunder Bay anyways, but having areas for people to go for warmth, so kind of making adaptations like that.

27:23 - Chelsey (Host)
I mean, it sounds very scary to me personally. How do you feel, like, how do you, who has to deal with this reality, like every day, like you have to confront it every day, whereas like somebody, like in my position, I can't ignore it for a week or two at a time and then something will happen where I'm like, oh, that's climate change, but like, what's your personal, you know feeling about where change, but like what's your personal, you know?

27:50 - Erica (Guest)
feeling about where, where we're going in terms of climate change and, yeah, your role within that.

27:53
I mean, I remain hopeful because that's just kind of, I think, the only way to do it um, and I do think there is lots to be hopeful for, especially as I talk to youth and I work with youth, like they are so educated and knowledgeable and passionate about climate change and the environment from the groups that I'm circling in, and so I have a lot of hope in seeing that I definitely, like, I just try and do my part and I think that's really important. I don't know, I think one person does make a difference, like because if, if I'm making a difference, like because if, if I'm making a difference, then three of us are making a difference, then it's six of us and then it's it's more like it's an accumulative effect. Um, so I do think you know, just, I just try and do my best at my home life and I try and do my best at work. It can get a little, it can be overwhelming sometimes to think about, but I just think, like you know, there's only you just got to work with what you can, what you can do, and there's a word for it too.

28:53
I'm trying to think because I went to a climate change, a climate conference, and the last speaker at the conference, oh, it's called climate fatigue, yeah, climate fatigue. So they actually had a workshop on just like people processing their emotions, especially like with lots of climate scientists and like environmental scientists type type workers. Sometimes it feels like you're banging your head against a brick wall because there's lots of times where people just don't necessarily want to hear what you have to say. Or also like there's so many other, for example, at first with first nations, like there's so many other imminent issues that might be going on, like you know, like it's like if you're trying to hose your people getting recycling going water yeah, get clean drinking water.

29:40
you know, getting recycling going or a reuse station isn't going to be as high as high of a priority, so it is difficult in that way. But yeah, I just I just try and stay positive, do what you can.

29:53 - Chelsey (Host)
We got to just keep our heads up and, yeah, remain hopeful. So, yeah, thank you for sharing everything today and, again, thank you for sitting down with us so much. I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope we can do another episode because I feel like there's literally so much to talk about.

30:10 - Erica (Guest)
Yeah, there's so much to talk about.

30:11 - Chelsey (Host)
Yeah, so maybe next time you're in Brantford we'll get you on another episode For sure, Cool. Well, thank you so much, Erica, for joining us today for the podcast and good luck with everything in your environment program. Please do check out our website OFNTSCorg for more information and you can reach out to Erica, I guess, if you have any questions as well. Yeah, for sure.